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That was...horribly shoddy. Whose idea was it to give the second to last ep before winter hiatus to writer not even in the staff office? WITH ALL THAT IMPORTANT PLOT STUFF TO DEAL WITH???? *Facepalm* There was so many problems here I don’t even know where to start, so I’m not even gonna try. It’s finals week, and I’m up to my ears in work, and SPN? This was lazyass work this week. Even Lennertz decided it was so lazy, all it deserved was recycled score.

Somehow while failing at everything else, they did do the badassery EXTREMEMLY WELL.

Meg was actually pretty super awesome (Saying this coming from someone who really hates the idea of rebooting Meg because no one will ever play her like Nicki Aycox. But Rachel Miner kicked ass in her own way this week which was appreciated.) Ruthless, sharp-as-a-tack Sam this week was CRAZILY AWESOME. (And pretty much confirmed to me my suspicion that his shtick last week was all just that, a shtick. His ability to play Dean is still, um, REALLY SCARY.) Cas and his restraint during Sam's 'no-shit' routine was kinda the BEST THING EVER.

BUT OTHERWISE. I’m sorry, that writing was ATROCIOUS. And how was this a SINGER directed ep? I don’t even know.

I've been this season's cheerleader for most of the year so far, I figured I'd have a stumble but getting an ep ranking up there with 'Yellow Fever' as shoddiest thing ever created at midseason finale time? Is entirely another story. Crappy plot holes and horrible dialogue and ridiculous pacing is one thing, but when I start having such huge problems with CHARACTER motivations in this show, I start to get a little ragey.

I have HUGEEEEE problems with Grandpa and his whole OH I WANT TO BRING MY DAUGHTER WHOS BEEN DEAD FOR THIRTY YEARS BACK FROM THE DEAD.

I also am having HUGEEEEEE problems with how this whole ‘we should leave Sam’s soul down there because he’d be too messed up up here’ makes any sense. And why on earth am I feeling more like Dean wants to get Sam’s soul back just so he’s not creeped out by this Sam. He should be wanting to get it back because HI RIGHT NOW SAM’S SOUL IS BEING SUBJECTED TO HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THINGS, AND EVERY DAY YOU LEAVE HIM DOWN THERE IS LIKE ONE WHOLE MORE MONTH OF TORTURE. WHY DO PEOPLE NOT CARE ABOUT THIS??? EVEN WHEN CAS BRINGS IT UP??? There was one way for Dean to respond to Cas’s idea and that was, “I’m not just going to LEAVE him down there!’ EXACTLY. This whole ep needed a rewrite.

And don't even get me started about the problem of Meg working with Dean and Sam in the first place, given all their history with her that they have so easily ignored here. She's done a hell of a lot more than just 'killed Jo and Ellen'. (A line to which I responded with, 'No boys, you killed them.' because whatever, it's true.) Or you know, where she was for the whole S5 showdown if she was Lucifer's right-hand girl?

The ending was pretty obvious, though I’m still left confused why this Sam EVER wanted his soul in the first place. And why he thought he needed Dean and his caring thing and went through so much trouble to make sure he‘d be by his side, only suddenly do the whole dramatic walkaway routine? There’s gotta be some deception in there, right?

Also, it needs to be said: That redo on the torture porn, if ever there was more an intentional 'fuck you' to everyone who complains about the show's sexist shit, it was that. That was more than just an illusion back to the Ruby scene, that was 'if you think that was bad, look at this! Implied genital mutiliation!' I don't even have words for how dickish of a move that was. Way to be spiteful as shit, Show. And after being pretty good all season too. Did Sera take a vacation or something when this was passed??? I thought it was at least nice that Meg got back up and got to be badass again after it. But then they went and gave Dean that last word about giving her to Cas for an hour before killing her, and I think I threw up in my mouth.

In conclusion: Can Brett Matthews, will ya? And stop letting Dabb & Laughlin train new writers. Mean-spirited, dickishly crude, lazyass writing does not need to be propagated, thank you very much.

ETA: Can someone please explain to me what Grandpa Campbell meant by this: "You sold out your own mother! It was Sam or your mother and you chose Sam". Is this him being woefully uninformed, or anything else that I'm missing that isn't some heavy-handed clue that Dean's still living his djinn nightmare from the premiere, and everything the last ten episodes has all existed in his head? (DOES. NOT. WANT.)

Date: 2010-12-04 10:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
I am actually going to have to agree with your here. That episode left me feeling kinda dirty and I wasn't sure why. I'm used to the show being dark but I think the rape references were just getting a bit much.

But mostly. I was left flat and head scratching. One thing I'm confused about. The story arc so far has revolved around these alphas. They've been pretty interesting and now they're all dead. That was the impression I got when it was all over. So, um... What was the point of all that. Or (as I've already done with ep!) maybe I missed something.

But, yeah, I'm with you. I didn't think much of that one. :(

Date: 2010-12-05 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
That episode left me feeling kinda dirty and I wasn't sure why.
I got the feeling they were all, you want stuff you want? Fine, but then we'll take some as payment. Whatever, show. Everything there to possibly squee about, fandom's done better, and there's no way I can squee when I'm left with throw-up in my mouth. Sorry.

The alpha thing is beyond weird. Idk. I mean, there's got to be some reason Crowley wanted to know about purgatory that still going to be mentioned, right? Who was Crowley working for? But it begs the question, with King of Hell in smoke, um, what happens to Hell now? Kinda blows to pieces the whole nice meta comparison of Heaven and Hell switching roles that they had if someone else unknown takes over now. Who knows. I'm done trying to figure it out. Things are definitely confusing after this one. Maybe next week will explain more before hiatus?

Date: 2010-12-04 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nutkin.livejournal.com
I think Samuel was saying that Dean would have ruined their one chance to bring Mary back if he succeeded in torturing/killing Crowley, thereby putting his mission to save Sam's soul above Samuel's mission to raise Mary. But honestly, Samuel was completely psychotic in this episode, so who knows? They could have played that whole Mary situation in a way that made him sympathetic and complex, and instead we got... whatever that was. Dean's comment about what Mary would think when she found out Samuel let her sons be sacrificed was completely valid and yet totally steamrolled. I don't think any parent, no matter how grieved at the loss of their child, would ever think of dragging that child out of Heaven and forcing her to live through the same pain. Just... what? WHAT?

And, yeah, major agreement on everything else. This season already has a lot stacked against it; they can't afford to be this sloppy and lazy with major plot points. UGH. So frustrating. I want to Pollyanna over here, and they aren't giving me much to work with.

Date: 2010-12-05 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
If that's what they meant, then that was a HELLA confusing line! I mean, didn't Samuel give them plans that lead them to that place? There was no explicit Dean choosing between Sam and Mary. Samuel never asked for him to, only said that he couldn't help. The only time in my mind Dean chose between the two was in his 'What Is' djinn dream, and my mind immediately went there instead.

But yea, pretty much all of Samuel's motivations...well, all season really, have left me at: WHAT??? But this. Idk, I can buy him wanting to rescue her soul from purgatory so it has a chance for heaven. But bringing her physically back to life? TO DO WHAT? Coming back into the hunting life she hated??

I want to Pollyanna over here, and they aren't giving me much to work with.
Right? I'm really not asking for much. I think I'm pretty easy to please, as long as the characters I tune in for every week make some semblance of sense.

Date: 2010-12-04 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cece-away.livejournal.com
*I’m not just going to LEAVE him down there!* That's what I thought should be Dean's motivation all along. Hopefully that will be stated sometime.

And I don't know what is up with Grandpa Samuel. His motivation is off. Wouldn't Mary have been in heaven with him anyway? I have no idea what he meant by saying Dean sold out his mother. That never happened, even when he went back in time he never did anything like that. At every turn he attempted to save her. When he and Sam went back together, they were even willing to not be born.

The episode was actually taken from one of those "women in prison" type movies so I think they were playing on that theme. A little too much. Possibly could they have named it something else and not gone there?

Date: 2010-12-05 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
I just think it's insane that we are not getting that motivation from Dean. I could excuse it for only so long, but when Cas literally paints out a picture for him, and Dean's response isn't that? Idek. I mean, HI, THE GUY IS THE REASON YOU CAN STILL STAND ON EARTH. Along with the rest of the population. Some concern for the soul down there would be nice. (And I have no idea why Cas said he's been down there for a year. Sure, an year in THEIR time, but more like over 100 in Hell's time, if Dean's 4 months=4 years. They better keep that continuity up.)

so I think they were playing on that theme. A little too much. Possibly could they have named it something else and not gone there?
We've had plenty of eps that use titles of movies with little to no tie back to the title. I think the writer used it as an excuse to inject as much useless, mean-spirited frat "humor" as they wanted. But it's really not.

Date: 2010-12-05 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cece-away.livejournal.com
A garrison of angels should be battering their way into Hell to rescue Sam as far as I'm concerned. Everybody should be fighting for his soul, even if it is battered, you'd think they'd still want to give him peace.

And Dean especially. He was only a soul when he was in hell. He knows how real that is. As much as he was worried about it before Sam came back, he should still have that same concern and nightmares about it now he knows Sam is still there. Absolutely.

Date: 2010-12-04 11:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deathisyourart.livejournal.com
I'll have to come back to this post because I am in the middle of my LAST EVIL PAPER of the semester and if I stop now I won't meet my deadline. However, YES! THIS!!!!! Can you believe that this show is actually run by a woman? WHAT. THE. FUCK?

Date: 2010-12-05 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
OH NO, GOOD LUCK! I'm just at the beginning of finals studying myself, I feel your pain!

But yea. I often wonder if Gamble just is one of those women that just doesn't SEE it, or whether this is all of what she fights with all the time and she just has to decide which battles to fight, and which to concede for leverage in other areas. It's hard to see how anyone could have passed that torture scene, and yet it went through multiple channels and still got to be aired. Obviously standards & practices has no rule about implied genital mutilation. Go figure.

Date: 2010-12-05 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] radiophile
UGH YES, THIS. TO JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU SAID. The whole "let's leave Sam's soul down there" plan makes no fucking sense. Probably because the show never bothers to clearly define what a "soul" is, and all we have to go on is what's been shown by the canon. And according to THAT, the longer a soul is left in Hell, the more fucked up it is. ERGO: LEAVING SAM'S SOUL DOWN THERE = A VERY, VERY, VERY STUPID PLAN.

I still don't get why they can't just ~release Sam's soul from Hell so it can float away to Heaven or whatever. Isn't that what happened with John's soul when it escaped in AHBL2? :|

I was willing to give Sampa a chance, even tho bringing him back never made sense to begin with, but yeah no :| This is just dumb :|||| Not to mention CREEPY. I'm sorry but he is way too invested in bringing Mary back while at the same time completely unconcerned with her own sons' well-being. I also don't get why he would WANT to bring her back in the first place. Unless Mary is trapped in Purgatory (which is the only thing I can think of that'd make sense). Otherwise, she's in Heaven and Sampa is just being an ass trying to disrupt her eternal peace.

I’m still left confused why this Sam EVER wanted his soul in the first place
I'm not sure this Sam "wants" anything, apart from physical things like food and sex (but randomly, not sleep lol whut). I think he reasoned with himself that the way he is now isn't normal, and he should probably go back to being normal because Dean won't stick around with him if he stays the way he is. I love that being soulless doesn't change the fact that somehow, deep down, Sam knows that he needs Dean ♥

... Of course, now soulless Sam is like "Okay fuck that, a soul isn't worth pain and suffering and possible death :|" Which, okay, fair enough. BUT THAT STILL DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOULD LEAVE SAM'S SOUL DOWN THERE A;SDKFJA;LDSH;LSDKHG *RAAAGE*

Date: 2010-12-06 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hugemind.livejournal.com
I'm going to forgive Show for some things, like the thing about maybe leaving Sam's soul down there. They've concentrated heavily on plan A a.k.a. getting Sam his soul back, and not on plan B a.k.a. what to do with Sam's soul if they're not putting it in Sam. I'm willing to give Show a chance to form a plan B now that plan A looks like it might not happen.

But there are some things that should not be forgiven. Like Meg's torture scene. Really not cool, Show. Someone--anyone-- should've pointed out before filming that it went way too far.

In conclusion: Can Brett Matthews, will ya? And stop letting Dabb & Laughlin train new writers. Mean-spirited, dickishly crude, lazyass writing does not need to be propagated, thank you very much.

THIS. The only redeeming quality in BM's scripts has been been the Winchesterian badassery. But even that is not worth the rest. *sigh* Partly it feels like he's been reading the kink meme fic and thinks that people want to see that shit on screen as well. Show has done subtle well, so why not give that another try instead of the hammer approach?

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