zimshan: (SPN - Crazy Circles)
[personal profile] zimshan
Disclaimer: I've had limited time the last couple weeks and haven't kept up with all the meta out there, but the Sam mystery has taken my brain for a ride. This post has been brewing since the premiere, and fueled by all my flist's awesome thoughts that have kept me thinking. I really wish I had time to do more than incoherent rambling and random picspam. I probably missed half the things I wanted to talk about in the rush, but I really just need to get these thoughts down. Probably not much new here, and the little bit which is will probably be knocked down tonight, rendering this whole post pointless, but...here goes nothing.

I’ve been holding off on making this post for a couple weeks, simply because while I felt like I understood the direction they were taking Sam, I could not for the life of me decide whether they’d be going with the mental damage or physical damage explanation.

If the last episode did anything, it was to convince me that the first option can no longer be an option. In my eyes, it is clear that Sam is some how physically damaged, as a consequence of (1) Lucifer possessing him, (2) being thrown in the cage with Lucifer, or (3) the action of whoever/whatever pulled him out.

There’s a fine line of where this would be interesting and where I would hate this. Generally, if this is any PART of Sam we’re getting, I’m still there with bells on. The lamest would be him not at all, and because it at no point accelerates the character progression in a show that relies on character progression to function ep to ep throughout a season, I can not see them taking that route. I think making consequences for him choosing to tackle with Luci in order to save the world would be pretty damn realistic and oh so TRAGIC, but I hope they can do it in such a way that isn’t just a retread on OH POOR SAMMY THAT HAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM WHICH DEAN FEELS RESPONSIBLE TO FIX. You know? That would just ruin all the five year character arc Sam had to get to the point they had in the S5 finale. I am about 99% sure Gamble and Co are smarter than that. But THERE’S ALWAYS THAT 1% THAT SCARES ME GUYS.

So I’ve been keeping a list for the last month: EVIDENCE OF S6!SAM. And let me tell you IT'S GOTTEN LONG. I was going to post it, but it would make this post much longer than is necessary, so I'll just jump right into the ideas that have cropped up from looking at that list after five episodes.

Remember the red and blue meta of last year? OH YES, I'VE CONNECTED IT TO THE MYSTERY OF SAM. Just bare with me, and call me crazy later.

'Cause here’s the thing: Heaven and Hell, which has been denoted by the colors blue and red respectively for seasons now, has SWITCHED ROLES. Heaven dissolving into anarchy just as Hell comes under authoritarian rule. And, in keeping up with how remarkably consistent this show is, the colors have switched as well. Check out 5.03:

What is particularly brilliant is that this has happened at the same time as SAM AND DEAN have switched roles. Ultra-blue, depressed as ever Dean is found aligned much more often with red as he’s become more tied to life and living again (sheesh last week he was the one with the blood addiction!). Meanwhile, red is nowhere near Sam. Get a load out of that above scene, with red lighting all over but pointedly not on Sam. Same in 6.05 at the vamp bar filled with red lights, there's none to be found on Sam. The same for wardrobe. Sam was wearing red until it was coming out his ears last year, red shirts, a red tie whenever they could fit it in. Not on stitch of red has been worn by him. In fact, it is all pointedly BLUE.

The first frames of the season are Dean's memories of Sam in past seasons, filtered in blue. The first time we see real-time!Sam, he’s in this new bright blue jacket (THAT LOOKS ATROCIOUS ON HIM SORRY), he’s never worn anything that solid of blue. BUT DEAN HAS. In fact, Dean has a jacket just like that bright blue number. And those ties this season? BLUE.

Now what happened last year? The credits were red. Sam saved the world with blood. Both physically (having to drink it to withstand Luci when saying ‘yes‘) and emotionally (as his empathy /pathos/love for his brother proved to be strong enough for him to gain control of Lucifer).

Cut to this year, the credits are icy blue. Just as Sam comes back in blue with a complete absent of red/emotion/life and an icy blue personality change? Guess what, I don’t think this is coincidence.

Let’s back up for a second. Recall how he had to drink gallons of blood for his body to withstand Lucifer? Ever wonder what that was about? We all thought the bloodline was enough right?

But it’s this moment that’s played in my head every since I first saw it:

LUCIFER: *blows cold breath over the window pane* Most people think I burn hot. *melts ice wiping glass with his vessel's finger* It’s actually quite the opposite.

It was brilliant in that it gave a counter to the blood. The reason Sam had to consume blood, aka life source, in order for his body to withstand him. Some heat to counter Lucifer's icy coldness inside of him. Some red, to balance the blue. But why on earth wait until the last episode to tell us something like this? Could it have been last minute planting of plot points for S6? Foreshadowing the consequence of super icy Lucifer inhabiting Sam on earth/in the pit?

I know it's become a popular idea that Lucifer is still in there sharing Sam's noggin. Practically, I can't see that happening, simply because Lucifer, as a plot point, needs to be done. S5 finale had to be the end of him, otherwise this season becomes a weird continuation of a five year arc that’s supposed to have already epically wrapped things up.

Of all the little details in my EVIDENCE OF S6!SAM list, the two most telling are in the premiere. This is no news at this point, but I think it's helpful to highlight.

First, Sam saying he wouldn't have even thought to care to save the neighbors. When two episodes ago, the show had very pointedly showed us, YES, SAM WILL ALWAYS GO BACK AND SAVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS HE CAN.

Number one with a bullet is Sam missing the emotional cue of Dean offering him the Impala. You know, THE OBJECT THAT SAM'S RECOGNITION OF CAUSED A WAVE OF LOVE FOR HIS BROTHER THAT ENABLED HIM TO TAKE CONTROL OF LUCIFER AND JUMP IN THAT HOLE TO SAVE THE WORLD. You know, just that thing.

That's the big neon sign with blinking lights saying ' HI, LOOK. What defined Sam for years and culminating in him helping save the world has LEFT THE BUILDING.'

So here is my guess: That Lucifer, being the Devil that he is, exacted justice on the man that defeated him by taking away the very thing that defined him. Indeed the very thing that saved the damn world. Lucifer ripped out Sam Winchester's empathy.

This makes sense to me, in a very ‘when big shit happens, there are very big consequences’. Sam letting Lucifer in, and control him, and jumping in the cage with him was just about as big as shit can get on this show. It makes sense that Sam would have to bare a consequence of that choice.

Now, I see that they could explain this in a couple of different ways. The result of (1) a literal froze heart caused by Lucifer's residence, (2) part of his soul missing do to Lucifer cutting/ripping it out, or (3) his whole soul totally missing. It all depends on how literal the show wants to take its mythology (we know it's gone pretty literal before). And whether they want to go and say soul=humanity=empathy or not.

While I’m kinda a fan of the first two options, it strikes me as pretty probable they’ll go with a clean cut #3 option. But remember this show has yet to clearly define what a "soul" in this verse is. Just because Sam is soulless does not mean he’s Angelus. In SPN, a lack of a soul might just be a lack of connection to others. In which case, we’re looking at rebuilding that connection over time.

The S5 finale gave a nod to the #3 option, so small you might have missed it. I certainly didn't catch it until I rewatched it the other day with the concept of souls on my mind.

LUCIFER: Come on, Sam, I’ve never lied to you, why don’t you pay me the same respect. That’s okay, I’m not mad. Let’s see, a wrestling match inside your noggin. I like the idea. Just you and me? One round? No tricks. You win? You jump in the hole. I win? Well, then I win. What’d you say, Sam? A fiddle of gold for your soul says I’m better than you.
SAM: *mutters* So he knows, doesn’t change anything. *Turns to Lucifer* ...Yes.

Those are the terms he agreed to. Turn of phrase maybe? But perhaps more. We did just learn angels can buy souls just like demons.

Nevertheless, I will put money down that this is the real Sam. Just not all of him. In my head, I call him an emo!Knockout Sam right now (like knockout mice? I spend too much time in a lab.) It’s as if someone just knocked the whole perception and ability of emotion right out of him. Stripped of empathy or pathos that thing that literally defined his character for five years and helped to save the world, all that’s left is excessive practicality. Efficiency. Without emotions, he has no fear. No stress, or concerns, but getting his job done. We can get info by doing this procedure on a kid, go ahead. It doesn’t register as torture, doesn’t register as a hard or tough call. It’s literally, this gets us what we need. Same with sex. Most efficient and direct simply to hire. A business transaction. The physical money and sex only. Throw away the phone number for a freebie.

He meets Dean a year later, and happily hugs him like one hugs a random family member at Christmas, with absolutely no sense of history. Dean hands him the Impala keys, it doesn't register to him that its anymore than a car. And he’s already got one. He keeps referring to the Campbells as "family" like its equivalent to who Dean is to him, when one is devoid of history and emotion, and the other one is full of it. He has trouble caring about the neighbors if evidence says they're dead. He gets bored with a case if evidence says dead babies aren't because of a monster. He tells Christian about Dean's time in Hell. It's all this fact-based stuff, without emotion mixing in. As if all he can register is info. He has the info of the past, facts of who he and others are, but lacks an understanding of the meaning of that facts. "I'm a hunter. I hunt monsters. The Campbells are family. Just like Dean. Dean's my brother. He went to Hell. He wants a family of his own. He deserves it."

And this fact-based thing has become remarkably consistent. Check out even the small bits of 6.04, where he completely misses why Bobby is upset, stating matter-of-factly "all you had to do was ask". Even more so, there’s nothing he’s more interested in than those facts. Watch how he does this squinty eye thing when Dean reacts in a way that's outside of Sam's expectations of him. Or when he's hunting and hears a noise. Look at his face when he watches Cas do that torturous procedure on that kid, like a surgeon observing a surgical procedure. You can almost see him mentally tabulating a list of observations, information, facts, to file away in his head. And then there's the last episode. In which, in getting a chance to observe the turning of a vamp, a tiny upturn of his lip gives away his perverse fascination. As much as it's already been seared into history as the evil!Sam smirk that stopped the hearts of fandom, look at it again. Fascination is how it reads to me. Him taking in the facts for what they are. And getting a tad too excited about being able to witness it.

He has no concern over Dean, because the facts are in his favor. "Dean's strong. He'll be able to fight drinking, Samuel's got the antidote, Dean will find the vamp, get his blood, and some intel, and everything will be fine." Did you notice that proud pat Sam gives him when Dean comes back from the hellish antidote experience? Go and rewatch it. It'd be endearing if it wasn't TOTALLY DISTURBING. Also notice how every question he asks Dean after he turns is about facts. Understanding the physicality of turning. What does Dean feel from the change? How was the nest? What did he see in the Alpha message?

But the one fact he doesn’t know, is why he’s back. Or Samuel. And what’s going on with these Alpha’s. But I bet you money this all facts boy knows those are related. Hence the one train deal he seems to be on. Torture a kid for answers. Put up a baby for bait. Wait five seconds and let his brother get turned for some inside intel.There's been more than one mention from Sam that he knows everything isn't okay with him, and I'd put money on it that he thinks figuring out this mission will help him, if he doesn't already have solid info on it already.

Interestingly, the one episode that is a big anomaly is 6.02. The baby right from the start annoys this Sam. And this Sam is downright unflappable. But he can't control it. It makes everyone in the supermarket look at them like child abusers and they can’t do a thing about it. Watching Dean with the baby spurs a convo in which he listens to Dean and gives him helpful advice, and later he comes back fuming as he kills the shifter that’s come after it. Later he even stands up for Dean in the face of Christian’s taunts. Interestingly the hotel scene in this ep is the only place I can find where Sam’s filmed with any significant red in the background.

For me, this really points to this ongoing theme of "we keep each other human". Or as Sam said, "It's better when you're around". It's undoubtable there's something wrong with Sam right now, but it's not irreparable. Sam's gonna need Dean's help to find his way back to normal, just like Dean needed his last year. And eventually things will stop being so damn depressing and start rebuilding. Just, SHOW? Make the rebuilding start sooner, rather than later already. I don't know how much more my heart can take.

As for where we are now, I think we're being lead into this episode tonight lock-in-step with Dean, thinking Sam is either absolutely Not!Sam or at least a Sam that wishes ill-will on him. And Dean is in for a rude awakening. It's not like the other times. It's not like what he fears. The template's been shattered. The script's been thrown out. It's nothing that you think it is. *crosses fingers*


ETA (10/30/10): Be sure to watch [livejournal.com profile] counteragent's new post-hell!Sam vid, 'Numb', if you haven't already. In a hysterical bit of mindshare, it's lock-in-step with what I was trying to say here. Only she argues it in BRILLIANT MULTI-LAYERED VID FORM. I'll be sure to have this one on repeat for the next couple weeks. XD

[6.06 SPOILERS now in the comments]
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Date: 2010-10-29 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harper47.livejournal.com
Oh I love your color meta. And I pretty much agree with all of this.

But question what is your take on Sam being upset that Cas answered Dean's prayer and not his?

Date: 2010-10-29 06:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
YAY! Glad you enjoyed! And that it doesn't feel too left-field like.

But question what is your take on Sam being upset that Cas answered Dean's prayer and not his?
OH! I wanted to add that in as well! I thought it was HUGGGEEEE evidence of all fact-based, efficient, practical Sam that calling Cas was the "first and second and third thing" he did once he got topside. Facts tell him Cas answers. It was something he could count on to be true. And then it didn't work. When Cas answer's Dean's prayer, it's the only other time we really see him so noticeably flustered. I think exactly because Sam calling him didn't work like it should. That he might have favored Dean over Sam is one of those 'understanding relationship' things that just doesn't register.

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Date: 2010-10-29 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] musiqueguy1.livejournal.com
I love your analysis!!! I pretty much have thought the same things you put forth here except the lighting/color ideas. This is eloquently put!!! THANKS! Me want to share it for the world LOL

Date: 2010-10-29 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Thanks! I'm glad you could enjoy! And that it was along the lines with what you'd been thinking too!

Date: 2010-10-29 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] singingrl.livejournal.com
That's a really interesting observation about Sam. I thought the same thing about Sam, that he measures his responses and has become much less cerebral and much more like a machine, a robot, reacting to each situation as though he's seeing it through fresh eyes. He's a Winchester, but it seems like he's lost any appreciation of the journey Dean and he have taken in life and forgotten that he never wanted to be a hunter, that he only did this for the good of the family. It's almost as though finding the Campbells has given him some sort of strange amnesia about his life as a Winchester, if that makes sense. I think you're onto something with the inference that Sam has lost his empathy and/or his soul. I can't help but believe that the Campbells know more than they let on about Sam and that Lucifer is somehow involved. I want so badly to see Sam and Dean embrace as brothers, but I'm not sure how the Sam Dean knows and loves ever really can come back. There has to be an answer, the real Sam has to be in there somewhere, however I don't think Dean's going to find him for awhile. I'm with you though, this show needs a teeny tiny jolt of hope and optimism at some point soon or I'll just be a walking puddle of tears by November sweeps.

Date: 2010-10-29 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
It's almost as though finding the Campbells has given him some sort of strange amnesia about his life as a Winchester, if that makes sense.
It's funny, 'cause I keep observing Sam's reactions on things, and thinking that in some way his story this season is playing very much like an amnesia storyline. Only that he remembers the past, factually at least. This should ping 'possession' in this show, but it still seems like Sam for me. Just something a bit different. IDK, I read this interview of Padalecki at the beginning of the season in which he said no one had told him this wasn't Sam so that's how he's been playing it. If this isn't really him, or even if he's got Luci in there with him, it'd be pretty careless for the writers not to clue him in. (Then again, he could be lying. Who knows.)

I want so badly to see Sam and Dean embrace as brothers, but I'm not sure how the Sam Dean knows and loves ever really can come back. There has to be an answer, the real Sam has to be in there somewhere, however I don't think Dean's going to find him for awhile.
I guess part of why I like the first two options best, the literal freeze, or just the "part" missing, is that in my head, it could possibly be something that might "wear off" or "grow back" so to speak. Idk, on some hand I have this wish that whatever Samuel and the Campbells are up to, Sam knows more and is using them. That would circumvent this repetition of Sam trusting people who are bad thing. But on the other hand, I have this feeling that this truth ep tonight isn't going to show us much other than clearing up the Not!Sam or Evil!Sam idea Dean's thinking right now. 'Cause Sam doesn't know much himself.

Really the thing irking me the most is Dean being so isolated from Sam, thinking it either isn't him or that he's evil somehow or something. If Dean could just learn that whatever it is, it's because of something that's been done to Sam and not a corruption of Sam's own choosing, I think Dean's whole 'trust no one, sleep with one eye open' shtick could end. Who knows though!

Date: 2010-10-29 06:34 pm (UTC)
ext_13391: (SPN: lips_eyes_dean)
From: [identity profile] smilla02.livejournal.com
This kind of works for me. Though I'm mostly interested in how they deal with it all.

Your meta color is wonderful, as usual. You've made me internalize it so much that I had indeed noticed the total blue associated with Sam so far. \o/ or is it /o\? I have noticed those squinty looks Sam gives Dean whenever Dean does something (this)Sam may consider unexplicable, like in the most recent episode, when he went to say goodbye to Lisa.

Wrt that line from 5.22 (great catch, btw!), all of this would mean that Sam lost the bet?

Date: 2010-10-29 11:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Hee, I almost didn't write this out, because for me too, it's mostly how they deal with it that's gonna make or break this thing for me.

You noticed the blue too! It makes me feel less crazy when I hear others are seeing it too.

The squinty eye when Dean said he went to say goodbye to Lisa! YES! That's probably my favorite squinty eye so far.

Wrt that line from 5.22 (great catch, btw!), all of this would mean that Sam lost the bet?
Idk, my big question is the logistics after Sam jumped in. In the pit, was Luci still in his noggin? Could he have taken control again then? And of course, what's happened to Luci now that Sam's topside again. Honestly, why Dean or Cas or Bobby or Samuel or Sam (if he hasn't figured it out already) hasn't asked this yet is BEYOND ME.

Date: 2010-10-29 06:43 pm (UTC)
ext_29986: (now!sam)
From: [identity profile] fannishliss.livejournal.com
One thing to add about sam vs. Baby -- The human reaction to the sound of crying babies is a physiological response --hardwired-- which may be why it freaked Sam out so much. It would be pretty weird to feel this insane need to "fix it" if you hadn't felt anything for so long.

I like how you lay out the options very clearly in this meta, and I'm really looking forward to learning more tonight about Sam! They've never really defined "soul" in this show... someone can "own" your soul, like happened to Dean or Bobby -- but it's yours while you're alive -- or at least so far. Souls in Hell or in Heaven experience things as if they were alive -- ie, Dean's very physical memories of hanging on meathooks (argh, that STILL gets me) or Sam and Dean shotgunning pbr with Ash in Heaven. In some theology, the inhabitation of a soul within a body is signalled by the breath -- leading the Hebrew word "ruach" to mean breath or spirit interchangeably. this is very exciting if you think about Lucifer breathing ice onto the glass!! But I don't see how Sam can still be breathing if he has no soul. And they very carefully showed that his heart is still beating...

anyway, also thought you might enjoy this poem having to do with the imagery of ice, since it ties in with your discussion of Blue. http://fannishliss.livejournal.com/67124.html

Very, very interesting, that now Heaven is the side association with Red untrammeled passion... Thanks Anna and Castiel!! :D

Date: 2010-10-30 12:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
One thing to add about sam vs. Baby -- The human reaction to the sound of crying babies is a physiological response --hardwired-- which may be why it freaked Sam out so much. It would be pretty weird to feel this insane need to "fix it" if you hadn't felt anything for so long.
Oooo. NICE! That very well could have been the thinking behind that then. I definitely had thought BUZZWHATT??? when I first heard the summary for that ep, and then when we saw this new Sam in the premiere, it made more sense. I think it was definitely a concept designed to set this Sam on edge.

Definitely with you on the lack of definition we have now for "soul" on this show. That's what I've been thinking too. As much as this whole show's mythology has surrounded the concept of buy and selling them, we don't have much of an idea of what it truly is. The most is really what Ruby said about burning humanity out of you to become a demon, but even then, are we supposed to assume that demons have no souls? Or are they just blackened souls? What about angels? Are their souls those white lights that fill vessels? How is it different from humans? There's sooooo much they could do here, and yet sooooo much they could screw up. It makes me kinda nervous.

Ooo, and you wrote a ice imagery poem! Awesome, I'll have to check it out!

So glad you could enjoy this! I'll be crossing my fingers for tonight...

Date: 2010-10-29 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aasaylva.livejournal.com
Yeah, another colour post from you with interesting interpretations to boot, especially the connection with Lucifer as self-professed ice-queen (or king, rather)! I've always found it confusing to keep in mind that Lucifer still IS an angel which crushes the usual idea of setting him up as an opposite to the angels - they are the same stuff.
Little aside: did you by any chance notice anything unusual in connection with Grandpa Samuel? I've never been too observant in these things, but your other colour posts sort of put me on the trail and in one of the first episodes (1 or 2) Samuel was shot with a BIG bowl or basket of yellow pears in front of him that served absolutely no purpose whatsoever - as soon as I saw it, I wondered what you might make of it?

Date: 2010-10-30 12:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
It IS confusing, isn't it?! I do love how the show played up the sameness that is otherwise pretty forgotten in most pop culture stuff though.

Little aside: did you by any chance notice anything unusual in connection with Grandpa Samuel?
I'm basically where you are. Right now, I think Gradnpa Samuel and I think YELLOW because of that shot. But I confess being on the Sam Mystery train, I haven't been actively looking for any Samuel patterns. Yellow has signaled caution and corruption previously on this show, but of course, is most distinctly aligned with the YED and considering how he possessed Grandpa earlier, AND appeared in the same episode as Samuel appears...YES, I am DEFINITELY suspicious.

Thanks so much for reading! Glad you could enjoy it!

Date: 2010-10-29 07:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chiiyo86.livejournal.com
You make a lot of sense, and your colors make sense too as usual (I never see this stuff!). I feel the way you do, interested, fascinated even, but a little worried too. I think tonight's episode will bring us a lot of answers, or at least I hope so! I hope that whatever is wrong with Sam, this is at least partially him because I don't like the thought that we didn't have Sam for the past five episodes.

Date: 2010-10-30 01:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
I'm definitely crossing my fingers tightly for this being at least partially him. There's nothing I dislike more than the idea that we've seen none of Sam in last five eps.

I'm really hoping that we get answers in this ep, though I'd bet they're gonna make us wait longer to get enough of the answers we want. I think it's pretty probable that it's just gonna narrow things down a tad, in that Dean just finds out Sam doesn't know much of what's going on. But we'll have to wait and see. :)

Date: 2010-10-29 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] radiophile
Awesome meta, as always! I love your color theory -- it's something I've started to notice more and more ever since reading your meta, and it's so satisfying to see that the show has kept it pretty consistent :)

Date: 2010-10-30 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Sooooo consistent over the last like 30 or so eps at least. Until last night when it decided it was gonna play with all our heads! LAMEEEE, SHOW. ;)

But it's awesome to hear the meta's helped you notice it while watching! Glad you could enjoy this!

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Date: 2010-10-29 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rileycakes.livejournal.com
This made me feel a thousand times better about the situation with Sam. Thanks for the fascinating commentary!

Date: 2010-10-30 10:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Aw, well glad to help out then! Hopefully the show followed through for you abit last night. ;)

Date: 2010-10-29 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mtee.livejournal.com
Thank you for the color analysis/picspam. I NEVER observe that stuff, so I always love to learn, from others, the depth the show goes.

I would love to have someone ask if the color/rose themes/analysis the fans observe is truly done on purpose and what thought processes went into it.

Someone should have a convention with the graphics/special affect/lighting people.. so we can pick their brains! They truly make this show interesting.

Anyway.. I do like the analysis of Sam as well. Someone had postulated that maybe Sam is enhancing again.. only this time with the alpha monsters they are collecting. But there are some holes in that.. isn't there someone on the outside who is leading this? In which case, I doubt Sam would have access to the alphas. Plus wouldn't you think Sam would have learned his lesson by now?

I like the soul is gone.. since it was brought up out of the blue that angels are collecting souls and they can go for a high price.

Good question brought up on how Sam knew that Cas and Bobby were still alive. Very very good. Never thought of that.

Ahh, fandom is best when the smart analysis is discussed and debated. Forget which brother has more screen time or which is being dissed by the writers.... These type of discussions need to be read by the writers and producers... the majority of fans are intelligent viewers who thrive on the literary and cinematography that is Supernatural.

Please keep educating us.
Thanks so much.

Date: 2010-10-30 01:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
I would love to have someone ask if the color/rose themes/analysis the fans observe is truly done on purpose and what thought processes went into it.

Not sure if you saw this but, Director of Photography, Serge Ladoceur did give a lengthy interview last year in which he cited Vittorio Storaro and his theory of colors as an influence, which I talked a bit about HERE. It's more about cinematography than most shows have gotten and gives us a pretty good indication that they're thinking about these things. There's a lot of quotes from that interview that I love.

Enhancing again? Like that capturing the Alphas one by one heals him somehow? Now that would be interesting. I did think about the idea that Sam thinks finding these Alphas might fix him somehow, but I thought of it more as a mission to complete for someone or something. That would be interesting. There's just so much UNKNOWN we're dealing with all of a sudden. There's a ton of different directions they could go with this!

Thanks so much for stopping by! Glad you could enjoy the post! :)

Date: 2010-10-29 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marciaelena.livejournal.com
Awesome meta, as usual. I've been wondering when you'd post another one of these, wanting to talk to you about it. You are definitely the reason why I've been paying a lot more attention to the colors, and what they could be pointing to.

First of all, I wonder if some of this storyline was already in the works by the end of last season. Because in the last scene of the finale, when we see Sam, he's wearing a predominantly blue shirt, as opposed to the red or the mix of blue & red he'd been wearing a lot before that:

There *is* some red there, but they're thin lines, drowned out by the blue. Then, in 6x01, the first time Dean sees Sam, Sam's wearing a predominantly blue shirt again. And again, there's some red in it, but it's overwhelmed by all the blue:

Then in 6x03 this scene really stood out for me, and not because of half-naked!Sam. There's a lot of red behind Sam here, but not in the room with him. It's outside, seen through the blinds. And the blinds promptly made me think of bars:

Also in this same scene we can see that the bathroom is red. Sam is facing the bathroom as he works out, but again, all the red is in another room, not where Sam is. And then when Dean calls Sam, he's coming out of a burger joint (with a big red sign) but what drew my eye was the OPEN sign we see behind Dean while he and Sam are talking on the phone:

Lots of red, but it's surrounded by blue. Caged in, one might say?

Anyway. *grin* I hope tonight's episode gives us at least the hint of an answer. I want Dean's beloved Sammy back! All of him.

Date: 2010-10-30 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
That's AWESOME that the color meta has kept you thinking about it! And look at you, ready with the comment picspam! I LOVE IT!

First of all, I wonder if some of this storyline was already in the works by the end of last season.
I'd say, definitely! But you've got sharper eyes than me, I didn't notice the faint blue line in there. I guess you could say the red is trapped by the blue?? In fact, the shirt a year later has more blue checkers boxing in the red than the first one. HMMMMM. *IZ CRAZY*

I *love* your theory on the red behind the blinds in that hooker scene! I hadn't notice that, but I'd definitely say it's plausible.

I like the last one, I don't think I had nabbed that one before. Was that from 6.05? I know the 'Open' sign was used a lot last year, only we'd seen it between the brothers as sort of a hopeful sign. Mostly I love the that there is a CAGE in front of the sign. As if it is meant to be the opposite of what it meant last year (since the wold lacks neon 'closed' signs and all, hee).

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From: [identity profile] marciaelena.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-10-30 12:55 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] msdori.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-10-30 02:48 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-10-29 09:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] monicawoe.livejournal.com
Excellent analysis! I too think this is all Sam we're seeing, just damaged. I do hope we get answers tonight!

Date: 2010-10-30 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Knowing this show, I bet they don't give us enough of the answers we want right away, but hopefully we'll get some. At least so we can cross off some options. There's too many ways this could go right now!

Thanks so much for dropping by! Glad you could enjoy the post! :)

Date: 2010-10-29 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ash48.livejournal.com
Yesyesyes, this is brilliant.

Squeeee... \o/

SOOOOOOOO much evidence that Sam is missing something VITAL and I LOVE that you've used your colour meta to demonstrate that. So exciting...

It just makes me feel so much better that this is not any kind of new Sam we have to live with forever, that at some point (and hopefully soon) we'll see what's happened and where that vital component is. Whether it be lack of soul or lack of empathy - he needs to get it back STAT!

I love that you brought up "YES, SAM WILL ALWAYS GO BACK AND SAVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS HE CAN." I meant to mention that myself because this is such a clear glue because Sam will always save people. \o/

And yep.... 1% scared. It's that 1% that's making me terrified to watch tonights ep. Will my heart be ripped out even more.... argh.

Thanks so such for this. It's awesome and yesyesyes...

Date: 2010-10-30 02:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
YAY!!!! I'm so glad you could enjoy it and that it made some sense for you!

Omg, when I started my evidence list after the premiere, I numbered each one. SIXTY FOUR observations. Five episodes, only four of which Sam was really in. Whatever they're setting up for here, they're not fooling around! The majority of which have been pretty subtle considering, I'm at least appreciating the detail.

I am SO TERRIFIED to watch this ep tonight! Even if I think they're not gonna give us nearly the answers we want in this ep. Knowing this show, they'll make us wait until at least ep 8. Do we know when winter hiatus is yet?

At any rate, I really do need to see some sort of reprieve soon. *crosses fingers*

Date: 2010-10-29 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] etoile444.livejournal.com
I often wonder if it is real Sam some of the time and not!Sam at others. I love that you included "cold as ice" Lucifer pictures because that little clue is nagging at me. Angels are always associated with blue and now Sam acts more like an angel, like someone who had his humanity ripped out.

I think worrying about Sam as the semi-demon boy king is over. I'd worry more about the partially angelic robo-hunter more.

Excellent thought provoking meta on Sam and the use of color.

Oh, Lucifer's sigil on the window always makes me wonder if it bound him and Sam somehow?????

Date: 2010-10-30 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Thanks so much! Glad you could enjoy this!

Angels are always associated with blue and now Sam acts more like an angel, like someone who had his humanity ripped out.
Yea, I'm finding myself wondering what is the logistics in terms of the soul between demons, angels, other monsters, and humans. Do demons really lack a soul, or is it simply a blackened soul? Do angels have souls? Was Cas given a soul when he fell and taken back when he was re-angelified? Is this what Anna was talking about, being unable to feel as an angel before? And what happened to Dean's soul during his vamp turning experience? I know Gamble said in interviews that they were moving to explain the mythology more, but it'll be interesting to see how far they go with explaining the rules and definitions here this season.

Oh, Lucifer's sigil on the window always makes me wonder if it bound him and Sam somehow?????
Oooo, is that actually his sigil?? I just thought it was an amusing little play on the devil's pitchfork from cartoons. Here shows how much I know! *facepalm* I imagine then they could come back with that, if they wanted to, maybe sealing the deal?

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From: [identity profile] etoile444.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-10-30 10:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-10-29 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nekosammy.livejournal.com
Great meta, and hopefully accurate on some level. I really want to start getting into Sam's new life and way of thinking though, get his point of view, more than we have so far. If Sam has been damaged, I want to see how he's been hurt.

I did notice Sam was in blue this season, so reading color metas has influenced my thinking on Show.

Lucifer also said that he "burned" cold, so I imagine that being with Lucifer and/or The Cage, was the kind of cold that hurts you - the way water that is too cold starts to hurt.

Anyway, I appreciate you giving me some hope for Sam this season.

Date: 2010-10-31 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Lucifer also said that he "burned" cold, so I imagine that being with Lucifer and/or The Cage, was the kind of cold that hurts you - the way water that is too cold starts to hurt.
Ooo! That's an awesome catch! I didn't see that by the opposite of burning hot it would be BURNING cold, I really like that! Well, I mean in a meta way. From a character standpoint, OH SAMMMM.

Glad you could enjoy this, and that I could pass a little more hope for Sam around. Though we're probably gonna need to hold tight to it for the next couple ep. ;)

Date: 2010-10-30 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cece-away.livejournal.com
You are brilliant. The color meta totally bypassed my brain. I didn't even think to look for it, but I'll be looking now.

And *What’d you say, Sam? A fiddle of gold for your soul says I’m better than you.* Huge hint. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Date: 2010-10-31 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Glad you could enjoy then! Five eps really isn't much to go on for color patterns but there's been enough so far that I wanted to share. :)

Yea, I figure the clause "I'm better than you" is probably a subjective enough one to reap 100% loss, if they wanted to play that.

Date: 2010-10-30 01:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deathisyourart.livejournal.com

Date: 2010-10-31 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
HA! I totally got your comment having not watched it yet, and my first thought was, WHAT? WAIT WHICH PART?? Haha! I went and screened this until I could edit to warn for spoilers, but it made me chuckle. I think I watched the whole ep going, OH THIS IS THE PART. Wait, oh that too?! I actually thought they didn't answer much, considering all the questions out there, if it hadn't been for the promo giving it away, I would have still been thinking, OKAY WHAT IS IT?! XD

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From: [identity profile] deathisyourart.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-10-31 11:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

You nailed it.

Date: 2010-10-30 02:55 am (UTC)
ext_5937: (Default)
From: [identity profile] msdori.livejournal.com
Dude. Dead bang on the money! And I was really disturbed by thAt one shot in tonight's episode where San is bathed in red light, but your post has made me feel so much better about that. Although it's gonna be an adjustment thinking of red as a good thing, after five years of OH SHIT RED NOOOOO! *g*

Thank you for this wonderful meta. I have a lot to think about now.

I'd be really interested to see your Sammy list, if you don't mind posting it.

Re: You nailed it.

Date: 2010-10-31 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Ha, I'm not too sure what was going on with the red light in Friday's ep. And the sudden appearance of red Sam shirt and tie. UNLESS IT WAS POINTING TO SAM'S LIES AND DECEPTION? Who knows.

I did a trio of color metas last year about how red isn't necessarily a bad thing (HERE if you're interested), last season was a really good example of that. Not too sure this season has made the same argument but hopefully it will be keeping within similar meanings as the season goes onward.

Date: 2010-10-30 03:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dev-earl.livejournal.com

Date: 2010-10-31 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com

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From: [identity profile] dev-earl.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-11-01 04:53 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-10-30 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] counteragent.livejournal.com
OMG. We are like mind twins. Have you seen my Sam vid? It's like this picspam and your picspam is like my vid! Eeeeeeee!

This is gorgeous, by the way, and I agree with everything you say here...as you can tell by my vid! :D I even put a blue filter on Sam for the narrative spine. :D

I mean, I know this isn't about me(!) but I'm so excited that you had the same thoughts I did about all of this! It's like you made a commentary of my vid that you hadn't seen yet. Or that I made a vid of your picspam and meta.

Off to rec you. :D :D :D :D

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From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-10-30 07:04 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-10-30 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] locknkey.livejournal.com
I loved the red/blue post from last year - fascinating stuff.

I've pretty much been thinking what you have so eloquently posited above. :)

For me, this really points to this ongoing theme of "we keep each other human". Or as Sam said, "It's better when you're around". It's undoubtable there's something wrong with Sam right now, but it's not irreparable I was pointing out how Sam seems more human, more able to tie into some emotion the longer he spends with Dean and I wondered if the almost family dynamic(shades of John/Dean/Sam)rubbed up against that part of Sam a little harder than Dean alone has been able to.

I especially like the idea that Sam might be partially souled or that his soul is frozen.

Very enjoyable!

Date: 2010-10-31 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Yea, my favorite would be if this fixing Sam could only be done gradually somehow, like being around Dean longer helps him progressively gain back his humanity or something, and not just a simple SPECIAL TWO PARTER IN WHICH THEY SEARCH AND FIND SAM'S SOUL IN A GLASS BOTTLE thing. That would definitely be my ideal, and given what we've had in terms of mythology so far, I don't think it's impossible that they might give us something like that, even if it is that his whole soul is missing right now. I highly doubt we'll be getting a black and white Buffy/Angel idea of the soul, evil vs good thing. But I might be instilling too much confidence here, Idk.

At any rate, glad you could enjoy!

Date: 2010-10-30 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] destina.livejournal.com
Heh, I recced this post because it's brilliant, and already it's been re-recced, yay. May that continue ad infinitum, because I love how you articulated everything that's happening with Sam. *g*

Date: 2010-10-31 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
Aw, thanks so much for the rec! (And the re-rec by consequence!) Glad to hear I could put it into words in a way that was helpful! :)

Date: 2010-10-30 05:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hugemind.livejournal.com
Yours is the only Sam meta I've dared to read, and I agree with you that it's Sam, but maybe not just all of him. Most people seem to be talking about souls and that seems like a plausible theory. And if Sam's missing his soul, is it because of Lucifer, the cage, or whatever brought him back? And where does Grandpa Samuel fit in?

However, sometimes I find myself thinking all the way back to 4x21 where Cas said that in order for Sam to beat Lilith, he'd have to drink so much demon blood that it'd change him forever. Sam got scrubbed down in 5x01, so we didn't see what the blood would've done, but what if now he hasn't been scrubbed clean? /end unpopular theory

I want to come back later to the color part of this, because now there's an SPN episode with my name on it waiting for me. :)

Date: 2010-10-31 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
However, sometimes I find myself thinking all the way back to 4x21 where Cas said that in order for Sam to beat Lilith, he'd have to drink so much demon blood that it'd change him forever. Sam got scrubbed down in 5x01, so we didn't see what the blood would've done, but what if now he hasn't been scrubbed clean? /end unpopular theory

Oooooooooo. That is a neat thought! Idk, but ooo, nice. How do you scrub down clean from a blood addiction in Hell? (He definitely drank more blood in 5.22 than 4.22, right? So I'm assuming?)

I'm really just at this question of, okay SPN. Souls. They can be bought and sold, but WHAT ARE THEY? Do demons lack them or are they simply blacked? Do angels lack them, hence Anna's thing about angels being unable to feel? Does that mean Cas loosing his angeldom and gaining his humanity last year was really gaining a soul? Do monsters lack them? Did Dean when he turned into a vamp last year loose his? And then gain it back? SOOO MANY QUESTIONS and this show has always been so bad at defining it's mythology specifically, I'm unsure how many answers we'll ever get.

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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2011-01-27 01:31 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2010-10-30 09:40 am (UTC)
ext_29993: (Dean says "Awesome")
From: [identity profile] persuna.livejournal.com

Wow. It's sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees when you are watching SPN week to week, but once all the facts have been gathered up so skillfully and presented so articulately, there is a lot more consistency and logic in Sam this season than I thought. I wasn't unhappy, but I still missed so many little things. This was a brilliant meta, thank you!

Date: 2010-10-31 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zimshan.livejournal.com
I've learned over time that I am such a happier SPN fan if I look at its broad strokes and overarching themes built over a span of episodes rather than getting hung up on little sometimes very annoying/infuriating details in individual eps. It's a necessary process to help me feel better about the season, like fandom therapy! Hee! But I'm glad this post proved to be helpful for you!

Date: 2010-10-30 12:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] counteragent.livejournal.com
Did you notice that proud pat Sam gives him when Dean comes back from the hellish antidote experience? Go and rewatch it. It'd be endearing if it wasn't TOTALLY DISTURBING.

IKR? OMG I wanted to use that shot SO MUCH in the end of my vid, intercut with his dying cuddle in Mystery Spot. Like an anti pieta.

I couldn't quiiiite manage it, but now I wish I'd tried harder...

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